Really cold air? - VW Forum :: Volkswagen Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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Really cold air?

I've been tossing around this idea for a while. Relocating battery, using this space to make a really good heat shield with foam on top so it's tight against the hood, then duct air under the car to the filters new large area with a velocity stack under the filter. Or grab a N/A velocity stack and filter set up and rig it on.(kind of like DD42's TT intake but much more extensive).

Now this is all great, but as soon as it hits the turbo 99% of that effort is gone.
I've seen garret "bags" for turbos. They claim to reduce radiant heat by something crazy like 50%+ Would it be worth anything to put this on a stock turbo and heat shield wrap the exhaust(after I paint it with high temp)?
Then heat reflector on the intake piping near hot areas or along the whole thing.
This + a front mount and power gasket on intake is what I was thinking for another winter project.
If I can get the air in 10 degrees colder, hell that's pretty damn good i think.
Just the cost of all this could be a pretty high price. Turbo blankets run 50-100$ wraps aren't cheap but not so expensive either. Then all the piping, FMIC and some metal to make heat shield.
Could run me a grand total plus a lot of time fiddling with things.

I think it might be worth it.
What do you guys think?


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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 10:00 AM
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not worth it.
i thought about wrapping my downpipe with header wrap. but that stuff is like $50. the cold air idea isnt bad but once again as soon as that air goes into the turbo it gets heated up. now on a vr or 2.0 it would help. maybe.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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Not even with a turbo blanket? Apparently they really keep the turbos heat on the hot side effectively. I figure if I am crazy about it enough I can keep the intake side of the turbo nice and cold. The only part that will transfer heat then is the metal contact to the hot side. All the ambient heat on the housing will be gone. That should help a lot. Just need to worry about a turbo timer then so I don't let the oil bake in the turbo.
Also the heat you trap on the hot side actually spools the turbo faster. Turbos work on thermal dynamics, the more heat you keep on the hot side is that much more energy to push the turbo.

I wish we had transverse motor would just put half the turbo right in front of the damn heat shield. I've done a lot of research on this to get this far I think I'm going to do it anyway.


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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _FUBAR_ View Post
not worth it.
i thought about wrapping my downpipe with header wrap. but that stuff is like $50. the cold air idea isnt bad but once again as soon as that air goes into the turbo it gets heated up. now on a vr or 2.0 it would help. maybe.
I agree it is not worth it, This was a craze when i was in the JDM arena. hard to make the seal correct, and a CAI is much more effective.

If you want to reduce radiant exhaust temps, thermocoating parts is a better plan than wrapping them anyways.

I run a intake phenolic insulator gasket on my car, not sure i ever would notice the difference, but the Logic and Physics of it makes me feel it is benifical.

Also, as it is true the air is heated rapidly once in the turbo, if it is colder, there is a more dense mixture of air being run through the turbo and compressed. this is benifical to power output.


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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 11:35 AM
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the heat balanket is only effective if all ambiant temps are reduced, it would not be noticiable unless you coated your manifold and other parts that become heatsoaked like the DP.

I also run a Turbo timer, it gives me piece of mind, not sure how benifical it is otherwise.


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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 11:37 AM
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but we are talking about a stock turbo with xxxxx amount of miles.

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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I could coat the turbo and manifold myself, then grab a ceramic coated DD42 downpipe.
Hell can coat and wrap everything.

It's some extra work but it's not so hard or expensive.
That gasket for the turbo to manifold?

Haha, 155k miles fur.


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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 11:45 AM
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My gasket is for the Intake manifold to head connection. Lowers intake manifold temps by reducing radiant heat transfer from the engine.

Run your car hard and pop the hood feeling your manifold. It will be nice an hot, this heat is transfered from the engine block at the connection points along with the ambiant heat in the air under the hood. the spacer reduces this heat transfer and since my manifold is polished (i removed the heat disipating texture) it is even more benifical for me I feel. This manifold temp directly correlates to the Intake Air temp (IAT). This is where i say the colder the air the better throughout the process, turbo or not, as at this point the air has been compressed and heated by the turbo, metered by the TB and the more dense the mixture you put in the better power output once it reaches the Intake mani.

What would you use to home coat? i imagine any thermo/ceremic coat takes VERY high temps to bake/cure...

Not the exact one I have, but same item nonetheless: http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=1913\

Testing by 034 on the subject:
http://www.myaudis4.com/images/mods/phenolic/pst.htm


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Last edited by Pssst...passed you; 11-21-2012 at 11:51 AM.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Oh right, yeah I wanna get one of those "power gasket" or whatever.
I'd really like an IE intake manifold but that's lightyears down the road.
Ya I know that sucker gets hot, bugs the hell out of me.

I'm not sure what the guy used for paint but this is what I got looking around for instructions.
Must be pretty easy to find this paint if he didn't specify.

-Naval jelly 2-4 coats, leave on for 15 mins then wash off with water
-Use green scouring pad and brass brush
-Acetone, let completely DRY
-3-4 coats high temp 2000 deg ceramic primer, lay a coat then wait 15 mins and repeat...Take your time, its more important to spray the absaloute MINIMUM amount then to have ANY glops of paint.
-Wait 3-4 hours, no touch, just leave it hang.
-3-4 coats of high temp 2000 deg ceramis black paint, lay a coat then wait 15 mins...only about 1 to 1.5 hours total for laying your coats. Let hang dry for a couple hours
-Then bake in the oven 30 mins 250deg, 30 mins cool, 30 mins 400, then cool 30 mins.







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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 12:00 PM
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Most cure at around 6-800 degrees in a staggered curing process like outlined above:


here is the VHT Flameproof curing process which i assume is what your guy used:

Off the Vehicle
•Paint must be completely dry before curing
•Heat to 250F (121C) for 30 minutes
•Cool for 30 minutes
•Heat to 400F (204C) for 30 minutes
•Cool for 30 minutes
•Heat to 650F (343C ) for 30 minutes


These temps are not feasible with a standard oven, thus not going to work right.


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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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I know a guy who works in metal and does cryogenic hardening and metal coating.
Can talk to him see if he will bake it for me.

I'm sure I can get it done.
Am I missing anything. else? I want to get a black FMIC and pipes. silver looks so tacky behind the front grills, no offense if you got one. Just not my thing.


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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-21-2012, 09:13 PM
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Do not wrap any pipes!!! I used to only own vintage cars and have some friends with bikes that liked to wrap exhaust. It will rot your pipe quick. I have seen bike pipes go in less than a year. The exhaust wrap holds in moisture when the car is not being driven. Constant contact will rust all steel. Stainless just takes a little while longer than standard steel. Your best bet is to go with just the ceramic coating and then put heat shields up to reflect heat away.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2012, 12:29 AM
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All that $$ and effort would be MUCH better spent on a Water/Methanol kit. I know chemical cooling is scary, but heck, shit makes power! haha

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2012, 05:42 AM
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A lot of effort for a k03...

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 11-22-2012, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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I'm not afraid of water meth at all. That would be my next step! 300 bucks for a constant rate set up and then i just need to get a second program to make use of the extra octane.
But the colder air i can get before the water meth, the even colder the air will be entering the engine.
Nitrous Express 15020

I'm not even remotely worried about rotting pipe. Here's why. First, the ceramic coating that I will be applying myself or have applied under the wrap, second. Exhaust pipes are really hot, any moisture is very quickly evaporated. Most people who get rotted pipes it's because they don't run their motor very often. Like for a bike, you ran it then you let it sit all winter.
Pipe rot doesn't actually happen for daily drivers. Also need to do a good wrap job, you're only supposed to over lap layers by 1/4 inch.

Yeah I know it's a ko3. But all I have to do is coat the next turbo fit the blanket and put that on and I have the same exact set up with a bigger turbo. I'm doing a transmission swap(auto to manual) this winter/spring anyway. The motor will be free and I can easily get to all these areas. Might as well right?


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