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Old 02-16-2005, 09:38 AM
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Default Good one hybrids...stupids.

Quote:
States Mull Taxing Drivers By Mile

CORVALLIS, Ore., Feb. 14, 2005

College student Jayson Just commutes an odometer-spinning 2,000 miles a month. As CBS News Correspondent Sandra Hughes reports, his monthly gas bill once topped his car payment.

"I was paying about $500 a month," says Just.

So Just bought a fuel efficient hybrid and said goodbye to his gas-guzzling BMW.

And what kind of mileage does he get?

"The EPA estimate is 60 in the city, 51 on the highway," says Just.

And that saves him almost $300 a month in gas. It's great for Just but bad for the roads he's driving on, because he also pays a lot less in gasoline taxes which fund highway projects and road repairs. As more and more hybrids hit the road, cash-strapped states are warning of rough roads ahead.

Officials in car-clogged California are so worried they may be considering a replacement for the gas tax altogether, replacing it with something called "tax by the mile."

Seeing tax dollars dwindling, neighboring Oregon has already started road testing the idea.

"Drivers will get charged for how many miles they use the roads, and it's as simple as that," says engineer David Kim.

Kim and his team at Oregon State University equipped a test car with a global positioning device to keep track of its mileage. Eventually, every car would need one.

"So, if you drive 10 miles you will pay a certain fee which will be, let's say, one tenth of what someone pays if they drive 100 miles," says Kim.

The new tax would be charged each time you fill up. A computer inside the gas pump would communicate with your car's odometer to calculate how much you owe.

The system could also track how often you drive during rush hour and charge higher fees to discourage peak use. That's an idea that could break the bottleneck on California's freeways.

"We're getting a lot of interest from other states," says Jim Whitty of the Oregon Department of Transportation. "They're watching what we're doing.

"Transportation officials across the country are concerned about what's going to happen with the gas tax revenues."

Privacy advocates say it's more like big brother riding on your bumper, not to mention a disincentive to buy fuel-efficient cars.

"It's not fair for people like me who have to commute, and we don't have any choice but take the freeways," says Just. "We shouldn't have to be taxed."

But tax-by-mile advocates say it may be the only way to ensure that fuel efficiency doesn't prevent smooth sailing down the road
Thanks jerks
This proposal, in addition to eradicating much of our privacy rights, also wipes out current monetary incentives for purchasing environmentally friendly hybrid vehicles, and invites a problem of fraud not present with the current gas pump meters.

Before anyone starts ranting about the man invading our privacy with GPS "tracking" devices...It's not likely that they mean that each car will be fitted with an antenna powerful enough to broadcast to a satellite. It's more probable that the plan is to include a GPS device in every car, which can determine distance travelled using the GPS satellites, then broadcast a report (probably by data over a cell phone call) to the taxing authority. It's a common misconception that GPS satellites can track anyone - all they do is broadcast their position, and your GPS device figures out where it is by the angle of the satellites. The GPS device doesn't tell the satellites anything, though, any more than your car radio reports back to the radio station.

The simple solution is a VAT tax...paid on everything, similar to EUropean VAT. Then we could do away with the IRS, more easily fund infrstructure, and you pay as you go. What you buy, etc...everyone pays their equitable share, both in the payroll and purchases.

I know this could easily turn bitterly politcal...but let's try not to let it.
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Old 02-16-2005, 09:50 AM
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they need money soo badly that they have to charge you to drive? that's retarded!!!
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Old 02-16-2005, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: Good one hybrids...stupids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFryauff
The simple solution is a VAT tax...paid on everything, similar to EUropean VAT. Then we could do away with the IRS, more easily fund infrstructure, and you pay as you go. What you buy, etc...everyone pays their equitable share, both in the payroll and purchases.
I've heard of this legislation - seems like a poor decision for the people (perhaps beneficial to the oil companies).

I'm unclear what the VAT tax is? Since I'm too lazy to search I figured you could summarize it quickly for my easy consumption.
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:29 AM
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Value Added Tax (VAT) is a general consumption tax assessed on the value added to goods and services.

It is a general tax that applies, in principle, to all commercial activities involving the production and distribution of goods and the provision of services. It is a consumption tax because it is borne ultimately by the final consumer. It is not a charge on companies. It is charged as a percentage of price, which means that the actual tax burden is visible at each stage in the production and distribution chain. It is collected fractionally, via a system of deductions whereby taxable persons (i.e., VAT-registered businesses) can deduct from their VAT liability the amount of tax they have paid to other taxable persons on purchases for their business activities. This mechanism ensures that the tax is neutral regardless of how many transactions are involved.
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:48 AM
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Here's what Josh was saying but more in english instaed of complex quanitaitve tax talk...
Quote:
The value added tax is similar to the national sales tax, however, instead of implementing one tax of a certain percentage at the time of retail sale, there is a smaller tax, proposed at 5%, added each time the product is resold or when value has been added. For example a tax is added when a product is passed from a manufacturer to a wholesaler, and again from the wholesaler to the retailer. Most products would be priced higher than they are today because the cost of goods would include this built in tax. The Value added tax proposal is sponsored by Representative Sam Gibbons of Florida and Senator Ernest Hollings of South Carolina.


Advantages: VALUE ADDED TAX

A 5% tax is levied at each stage of production of goods.
The total tax is built into the cost of goods
Exports are not taxed.
All imports are taxed.
It allows multiple rates and exemptions on goods from other countries.
This form of tax is used by many other industrialized countries currently.
No tax forms or tax returns will be needed for individuals.
It would eliminate the need for the IRS.
The cost of compliance is estimated at nearly $5 billion per year, about a hundred times less than the current system.
Disadvantages:

It would be similar to the National Sales tax, but it would be more complicated to administer and collect.
It would also tax food and medicine as does the national sales tax.
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You act like there was some huge conspiracry theory or plan, he posted pictures of his car.
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Old 02-16-2005, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1point8T
they need money soo badly that they have to charge you to drive? that's retarded!!!
I think Anthony hit the nail on the head here...
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Old 02-16-2005, 11:20 AM
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the VAT sounds good to me. it would easily provide for infrastructure improvements (PA roads ) and would lessen the red tape concerning the IRS. also there wouldnt be wasted tax money on the personnel of the IRS.

on the other hand, many tax return companies and accountants would be out of business.
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Old 02-16-2005, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
on the other hand, many tax return companies and accountants would be out of business.
Pffft, let them get a real job! :P
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Old 02-16-2005, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFryauff
Quote:
on the other hand, many tax return companies and accountants would be out of business.
Pffft, let them get a real job! :P
yeah i know...losers
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Old 02-16-2005, 11:36 AM
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So if I tow my street car to the track and back I get poked for double the milage? I'd love to see the try to install a GPS in my car. I've touched every surface on every panel... they can't hide it from me.
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Old 02-16-2005, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourt1thirty
So if I tow my street car to the track and back I get poked for double the milage? I'd love to see the try to install a GPS in my car. I've touched every surface on every panel... they can't hide it from me.
These guys come and do it...you'll never know!
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Old 02-16-2005, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourt1thirty
So if I tow my street car to the track and back I get poked for double the milage? I'd love to see the try to install a GPS in my car. I've touched every surface on every panel... they can't hide it from me.
It's prob only work if the car is turned on. i'm sure there would be a lot of people finding ways to disable it and stuff. i don't think it's the best or smartest way to work. To many lawsuits would arise from it.
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You act like there was some huge conspiracry theory or plan, he posted pictures of his car.
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Old 02-16-2005, 11:50 AM
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I can see it now…"Dude, I just did the GPS disable mod and I love it."
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Old 02-16-2005, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerabbit0886
the VAT sounds good to me. it would easily provide for infrastructure improvements (PA roads ) and would lessen the red tape concerning the IRS. also there wouldnt be wasted tax money on the personnel of the IRS.

on the other hand, many tax return companies and accountants would be out of business.
good point kyle. Doo eet... "GPS disable mod" hahahhaha!
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Old 02-16-2005, 12:24 PM
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So VAT is tax on goods/services only?

It seems like it was implied that payrolls were still taxed and if yes, then how?
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