a terrible situation

[Tommunist]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/15/zo...ial/index.html

I'm not sure if the fact that the drug company had something to lose with this verdict had anything to do with the outcome but it seems possible. It seems strange to me to give a 12 year old 30 years in prison though - his chances of having any sort of normal life after that is pretty much nill. Obviously murder is a serious crime but this is a strange situation none the less.

I've always been against taking medications of any kind unless I really had to as I don't like changing my mind state on a constant basis especially when the long term (and sometimes short term effects) aren't entirely known. I really think the effects of this drug on youths needs to be investigated more seriously as this is a horrible tragedy.

[ghostofjosh]

killing your grandparents while theyre in bed is unexcusable, let the little bastard rot in hell for all i care, thats just not right
--dave--

[Tommunist]

Originally Posted by gotmilfmk3

killing your grandparents while theyre in bed is unexcusable, let the little bastard rot in hell for all i care, thats just not right
--dave--

well everyone would agree it's wrong - but the question is whether or not the kid was out of his mind or not and if he was - was it caused by zoloft?

[JFryauff]

That is very unfortunate indeed...but as you mentioned, such a malicious double homoicide is a very serious crime...and he should do his time.
Could a better diagnosis earlier on prevented this? Sure, but without a proper psychiatric evaluation...and by simply pushing a drug that has been known to have adverse effects in adolescents.
A selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors such as Sertraline have shown in clinical studies, that in normal doses (25-200mg) over a ten week period, levels of agitation, anorexia, insomnia and suicidal thoughts and self harm increased compared with placebo.
I don't however believe that Zoloft alone could drive this sort of extreme behavior...It's crucial to realize that most adolescents involved in youth crimes only see the short-term effects, like feelings of empowerment and superiority. They cannot foresee the long-term effects before doing the crime. They do, however, experience the after-affects in long days of imprisonment. This coupled with the obviously lacking family bond this kid had, and an even more obvious mental instability, should be enough for anyone to see that medicated or not...this kid was going to snap.

[ghostofjosh]

if you kill someone while your on crack, you still go to jail, and thats a mind altering drug also...for me theres no way this kid should get off the hook regardless of his medical situations, just my humble opinion though, oh and tom, he is 15 yrs old
--dave--

[JFryauff]

oh and tom, he is 15 yrs old

...but the murders to place when he was twelve

[ghostofjosh]

Originally Posted by JFryauff

...but the murders to place when he was twelve

my bad josh , hes being sentenced at 15...still think he needs to the time though

[Tommunist]

thanks dr. fryauff

......

I'm not sure if I'd compare crack to zoloft since he was being prescribed the zoloft so it is in no way his fault if it caused mental instability.

[shedpress]

Originally Posted by Tommunist

I've always been against taking medications of any kind unless I really had to as I don't like changing my mind state on a constant basis especially when the long term (and sometimes short term effects) aren't entirely known. I really think the effects of this drug on youths needs to be investigated more seriously as this is a horrible tragedy.

I agree with Tom that I would never want to take something that had unknown effects.

As they said in the story...he did have the "sense" to hide what he had done...which to me means that he knew what he was doing. See how messed up the kid is after his 30 years are up...I hope it changes his mindset.
That's a screwed up story...

[Straz85]

unfortuntately, these are the same arguments that took place in the trial I'm sure. Personally, I don't think he should be tried as an adult. 15, 16, 17 years old, yes, but 12 is very young. Obviously both psychiatrists are extremely biased, to the point where they would flat out lie probably. The US justice system requires it to be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt" that he did it and he was sane when he did it, no one can be sure of this to that point in my mind. But I also was not present at the trial, so it's hard for any of us to make any sort of arruments here.

[Tommunist]

Originally Posted by Straz85

unfortuntately, these are the same arguments that took place in the trial I'm sure. Personally, I don't think he should be tried as an adult. 15, 16, 17 years old, yes, but 12 is very young. Obviously both psychiatrists are extremely biased, to the point where they would flat out lie probably. The US justice system requires it to be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt" that he did it and he was sane when he did it, no one can be sure of this to that point in my mind. But I also was not present at the trial, so it's hard for any of us to make any sort of arruments here.

true enough - it's hard to tell without having heard all of the evidence/testimony.

[blkjettaiv]

In PA the legal age to 'know' right from wrong is 7. In my mind he should rot, our society today is to quick to make excuses for anybody/anything 'cute'. Cows aren't cute therefore people don't bitch as much that we kill them for food, as opposed to say a horse or cat/dog. Lets take into fact that if he was over lets say 16 there would hardly be an uproar. If he was older, there would have been two options for the jury life in prison or death, but seeing how he was 'mentally' ill they would never sentence this kid to death. Seeing how he had remorse/sense to hide things meant he knew what he was doing and the jury made the right decision. All this will do is give more idiots out there another excuse to commit haneous crimes and place the blame on somebody else. Which is a shame that our society is turning that way. just my .02..

[Tommunist]

Originally Posted by blkjettaiv

In PA the legal age to 'know' right from wrong is 7. In my mind he should rot, our society today is to quick to make excuses for anybody/anything 'cute'. Cows aren't cute therefore people don't bitch as much that we kill them for food, as opposed to say a horse or cat/dog. Lets take into fact that if he was over lets say 16 there would hardly be an uproar. If he was older, there would have been two options for the jury life in prison or death, but seeing how he was 'mentally' ill they would never sentence this kid to death. Seeing how he had remorse/sense to hide things meant he knew what he was doing and the jury made the right decision. All this will do is give more idiots out there another excuse to commit haneous crimes and place the blame on somebody else. Which is a shame that our society is turning that way. just my .02..

I'm not sure burning the house down proves or shows remorse - I can't say what his mental state was but this one fact alone doesn't seem to be enough.

This brings up an important issue of what service is our judicial system is supposed to provide: punishment, rehabilitation, or some combo of both and how much of each. Obvoiusly part of this is protecting society at large by having these people locked up but what's to say he won't do the same thing again when he gets out?

[blkjettaiv]

Originally Posted by Tommunist

I'm not sure burning the house down proves or shows remorse - I can't say what his mental state was but this one fact alone doesn't seem to be enough.

This brings up an important issue of what service is our judicial system is supposed to provide: punishment, rehabilitation, or some combo of both and how much of each. Obvoiusly part of this is protecting society at large by having these people locked up but what's to say he won't do the same thing again when he gets out?

I think that we all agree that if this kid gets placed in prison, that he probably won't live to see his 25th birthday, for obvious reasons...(Bubba comes to mind)

[Tommunist]

Originally Posted by blkjettaiv

I think that we all agree that if this kid gets placed in prison, that he probably won't live to see his 25th birthday, for obvious reasons...(Bubba comes to mind)

I think it depends what prison it is and everything - I would think he would be in juvenile until he turns 18. Perhaps not though...