crazy problems with 06' jetta tdi transmission

[whytepizza]

Hey, i have an early edition 06 jetta tdi. when i first got it within 2k miles i had a problem with the clutch. My clutch pedal stuck to the floor and the car stalled... i had to have the clutch replaced. After that i had an issue with the transmission 'whinning.' It sounded like a jet engine warming up. Had it looked at and the transmissiona nd clutch had to be replaced again. That was at about 5k miles.
So, time goes on and i get this weird light... my airbag light. They had to replace the drivers airbag. The light goes off and then 2k miles later the light goes on again. They had to replace the steering wheel harness.
Okay, skip forward 2 months from the airbag... I rolled the car onto its side in a really bad storm in Vermont. They took the car down, towed it, replaced the panels, and did a check. No structural damage only minor body work. Even my mirror stayed on! I was thrilled, no big damage. Now, i get everything fixed and the body shop did a horrible job, but they aren't VW, so i was expecting a little B.S. with the workmanship. So, i have the car for about a month, it's running good, i'm at a stop light. It turns green and i speed up. I go to shift into 2nd gear and surprise surprise the clutch sticks to the floor again. I let up and then i hear a thunk and the engine whines down, the car stops itself, and it stalls. I could not get it out of gear for the life of me. I was stuck on a highway, in the fast lane, with a dead car, during morning rush hour, on my way into NYC...
I took it to the dealership and they said that the transmission was crack, the clutch was completely shredded, and two motor mounts had broken which twisted the engine and cracked the block. They said it was due to the accident... the accident which i had my car check afterwards at 3 different locations including one VW daler in New Hampshire. So long story short, the dealership is not covering the 12000 worth of damage and neither is my insurance.
So, i write this all to ask, is there an issue with the new transmissions? I understand i have a ton of torque compared to casoline cars and my theory is that the tranny siezed which destroyed my clutch and twisted my engine, not the other way around like the dealership states.
I'm the only person i have ever heard of having these problems. I've heard of a few electrical problems, which i can understand but there transmissions are supposed to be the new 'bulletproof' transmission and i'm not even shooting bullets at it and i'm on the third one!
So, the car has 36k miles and an extended 7/70000 bumper to bumper warrenty on it. It's too late to yell that it's a lemon, especially since the dealership states it's part of the accident (which it's not).
So now you know the story, anyone have any specs on the MK5 transmission? Have any idea how much torque would be needed in order to crack the transmission? and have any other idead what migt cause the entire 90hp engine to completely twist? It's not like you can just shift and crack a transmission.
Thanks!

[hermanpj]

well... i hate to admit it but what the dealer is saying sounds plausible:

the car was rolled, during which time the engine mounts were subjected to stresses they are not designed to tolerate without damage. in fact in many cars (not sure on VW)they are designed to shear in a crash, so that the engine and transmission submarine under the passenger compartment as part of the overall structural plan for how the car will perform in the crash and in conjunciton with crumple zones, etc....

so although body panels were lightly damaged, the force of the rollover multiplied by the weight of the engine, focused on motor mounts (which are bolts connecting the engine to tabs of metal welded to the sub-frame) could very well break mounts. As to why 3 checkouts didnt detect, can't say. Engine mounts are routinely checked in a rollover collision. They need to check not only for clearly broken mounts, but for metal fatigue. Sounds like the dealer was not one of the places that checked it out.

So anyway, a mount finally give way under load of shifting into gear, and this rotates the engine enough to cause a problem with the transmisison. Where is the block cracked? at the motor mount location on the block? or where the engine bolts to the transmission? similarly is the transmission case cracked where it meets the engine? or is it cracked where the transmission mounts to a frame cross-member?

Not saying that is exactly what happened, but it sounds more possible than 'the torque of the engine shredding the trasmission and the resulting engine-transmission lockup cracking the engine block, and breaking motor mounts.

[whytepizza]

Wow, you're thorough!
Um, okay, the engine black cracked directly at the rear motor mount, like the engine was being pulled or twisted. The tranny cracked in the middle, oddly enough. like a knife slit it down the middle. Looks like a stress fracture that compounded into a bigger problem. nothing loose inside the tranny, though.
I had it checked out by a VW dealer in NH, but i can't say as to their dependability. As any VW owner knows, the dealership can make all the difference.
I have Geico, which checked it out after the crash as well. The guy who does the inspection had a good reputation, but the autobodyshop where he sent me to get the work done does not. My old focus was involved in a hit and run. My focus was parked, someone hit it, and ran. They fixed my focus at the same auto body and it was probably better before it was fixed.
Anyway, the bolts from the tranny to the block are fine. As the car just sat there everything was holding well, they didn't even notice the broken motor mounts until they went to take the cracked tranny out. No fatigue on the subframe itself, only on the mount. Frame is in perfect condition. They said it needed a new block, set of pistons (something happened to them but they didn't tell me what, they just said they had to replace them. Maybe they are integrated into the block? I'm not too familiar with Diesel mechanics), new transmission, and new clutch. All else seems fine.
After talking to my insurance company and sounding tough and angry, it looks like they will cover the damage because the transmission was cracked in an odd place. The representative for Geico helped me out ALOT! He said that he would put it in as a no-fault accident, like a hit and run, hitting a pothole, etc. He said VW wasn't budging from their opinion and it was probably less expencive to just fix it than fight them. I'm pissed only because my family is Deutch (German) and had VW since they started mass producing them. I've never had a problem like this and this was MY fist VW. My grandfather still has his Kübelwagen in Deutchland. it has survived WWII and still runs perfectly with basic care and low miles.
So, luckily, insurance is working with me, i just hope my rates don't jump like crazy. I still think it's a manufacturers issue because they cannot say 100% if it was caused by the accident. But, at the same time, insurance cannot say 100% that is wasn't cause by the accident.
Luckily, it's getting fixed, but i'm still very curious about any transmission issues that there are with the MK5 tranny. I doubt my driving is complicating issues, i drive like an old man. I don't speed up quickly, powershift, leave the clutch down to stay in neutral (unless i'm at a stoplight, of corse), hell, i don't even hold it on hills in gear.
My toyota, on the other hand, has 165k miles with it's original clutch. I had to replace the engine 60k miles ago. Still runs perfect and i abuse that engine. I'm hoping for a clutch problem so i can learn how to change it, but nothing is working so far.
Okay, so back to VW, can the tdi engine cause enough torque to produce problems in the transmission? Is the MK5 transmission prone to problems internally or externally? Is there any issue in VW MK4 or 5 with changing a transmission (i know there are with some manufacturers like Ford)?
Other than this, the car has been awesome. It literally is a mini-tank. I want to go all 'Escape from NY' with it, lol. Repares and basic needs for the car are expencive, but few and far between so it averages out. My gas mileage was bad, but i do drive a little fast on the highways, and i drive 90% of the time in NJ so that will destroy all mileage. I'm getting 32mpg average city, and up to 40 highway at 90mph. Maybe this new tranny and block will make the car run more efficiently. I know you're supposed to drive it like you stole it and do higher rpm's to let it run at peak efficiency, but i can't bring myself to abuse it.
so, any wand all infor would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

Originally Posted by hermanpj

well... i hate to admit it but what the dealer is saying sounds plausible:

the car was rolled, during which time the engine mounts were subjected to stresses they are not designed to tolerate without damage. in fact in many cars (not sure on VW)they are designed to shear in a crash, so that the engine and transmission submarine under the passenger compartment as part of the overall structural plan for how the car will perform in the crash and in conjunciton with crumple zones, etc....

so although body panels were lightly damaged, the force of the rollover multiplied by the weight of the engine, focused on motor mounts (which are bolts connecting the engine to tabs of metal welded to the sub-frame) could very well break mounts. As to why 3 checkouts didnt detect, can't say. Engine mounts are routinely checked in a rollover collision. They need to check not only for clearly broken mounts, but for metal fatigue. Sounds like the dealer was not one of the places that checked it out.

So anyway, a mount finally give way under load of shifting into gear, and this rotates the engine enough to cause a problem with the transmisison. Where is the block cracked? at the motor mount location on the block? or where the engine bolts to the transmission? similarly is the transmission case cracked where it meets the engine? or is it cracked where the transmission mounts to a frame cross-member?

Not saying that is exactly what happened, but it sounds more possible than 'the torque of the engine shredding the trasmission and the resulting engine-transmission lockup cracking the engine block, and breaking motor mounts.

[hermanpj]

interesting...

ok so, this is still just my opinion, but based on the block being cracked where the block's mount points are for the engine mounts, and keeping in mind the engine mounts are designed to take the stress of the engine's torque (which discounts the engine doing this too itself), i'd say the rollover caused the cracks either outright, or left fatigued or bent mounts so severe that after some normal driving, bumps, etc, one or more of the mounts gave way, and whatever wasnt cracked before cracked then. VW dealer or Geico should have caught the fatigue in the after-crash inspection. they may have been hard to detect, but thats why there are people trained to do this kind of work.

the transmission cracking along it's length... thats a little crazy. however, the stresses it could have been subjected to as the car rolled would be significant. the case is aluminum i believe. and though its thick, it when being compressed or pulled apart, it could crack. Its not designed to be a structural member. so when the car rolled, a lot of force was conducted through that case that it was not designed for.

i think you should check TSBs etc for your question of whether the engine is too much for the transmission. i'd tend to doubt it - i would think that people would have been all over this thread reporting well known problems, and that there'd have been a recall if that were the case, and folks would be telling you about it.

as to the need to replace pistons and other engine internals. at that level a diesel is not really different than gasoline engine. the differences are more around compression and ignition of the fuel. from a rotating mass perspective: crank, connecting rods, pistons, the diesel stuff does the same thing the gasonline versions do. so replacing them isnt a diesel thing per se. not knowing exactly what of your engine they are keeping vs replacing, it may be that you are highly recommended to replace pistons when replacing w a rebuilt block so that slightly oversized pistons may be used, allowing the replacement, used block to be bored out, thereby correcting issues which may have developed in cylinder walls during its original period of use. Or it may be that the loud "thunk" you referred to hearing was itself or was quickly followed by very bad things happening in your engine. e.g. serious overheating, or maybe damage to the crank, which caused damage to the pistons connected to it.

i think its worth asking exactly what they are replacing: are they getting you a new engine? a rebuilt diesel long block? just a new block and pistons? get the scoop...

you sure are lucky Geico decided to cover it - i cant believe they didnt just total it and cut you a check. whats the retail blue book value of a jetta with your year and mileage?

[badluckbandit]

wow dude u got f***ed i feel so bad for u man the only way i could see that happen is the tranny haveing a leak running outa fluid seased and broke a week mount cracking everthing up i seen this happen to a 94 ford f150 but that took a while and u could tell somthing was wrong
best of luck