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Discussion Starter #1
I'm almost without a doubt going to eventually want more hp than I have right now (well- I want it right now but I don't have the money). This will either involve simply getting a faster car or moding the one I've got. I'm mainly interesting in talking about hp here since I know I'd have to upgrade the suspension and breaks anyway along with it.

1. The new 24v VR6s is 200hp. Is it possible to upgrade parts of the engine to make it 24v or is this impossible?

2. What is a practical CAI for someone that would be driving their car everyday?

3. What is a practical catback exhaust that won't be deafening or annoying but sounds nice?

4. Turbo or supercharge? Which is better and how much if at all is the engine life shortened from each?

5. Other upgrades that can be done that will leave the car driveable on a daily basis?

I know that's a lot of questions but I have a lot to learn and that's why I'm here. Thanks.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tommunist:
I'm almost without a doubt going to eventually want more hp than I have right now (well- I want it right now but I don't have the money). This will either involve simply getting a faster car or moding the one I've got. I'm mainly interesting in talking about hp here since I know I'd have to upgrade the suspension and breaks anyway along with it.

1. The new 24v VR6s is 200hp. Is it possible to upgrade parts of the engine to make it 24v or is this impossible?

2. What is a practical CAI for someone that would be driving their car everyday?

3. What is a practical catback exhaust that won't be deafening or annoying but sounds nice?

4. Turbo or supercharge? Which is better and how much if at all is the engine life shortened from each?

5. Other upgrades that can be done that will leave the car driveable on a daily basis?

I know that's a lot of questions but I have a lot to learn and that's why I'm here. Thanks.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


1. It's impossible! Of course you can try, but these two engies are different!

2. Sorry I don't know what is CAI!!


3. Supersprint or Milltek Sport(http://www.milltek.co.uk/)

4. It depens on you. What do you want? To have a big torque from 1000 RPM (that's charger) or storm acceleration on the highway (that's turbo).

5. Change shifts, vulves, shiftcams.


Sorry for mistake!
 

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Two links with some info supercharging or turbo:

Supercharge - VF Engineering

VW Turbo

I like techtonic's cat back. I think they have a good sound. Can go aluminum or stainless. APR also has a nice system. I haven't heard it on the VR6 yet however.

APR Exhaust

Techtonics Exhaust

The supercharge vs. turbo is an age old debate. I really cannot say one way or another. Turbo seems to be the way everyone is going - look at VW. They only made the G60 for a bit and now everything else is turbo.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I guess I would also like to know - given an upgrade to something like a SC or a turbo, what other upgrades must definitely be done along with this? Because while 3-4k for an SC or a turbo doesn't seem too bad considering the gains, it would seem that more money would need to be spent on the install as well as upgrading related mechanical parts. What would you guys estimate the total cost to be to upgrade to a SC or a turbo from a completely stock VR6 12v. As a note I think I'd be happy with between 250hp and 300hp. And while this might seem silly, what kind of mpg would I get after something like this?
 

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I'm using an Evo CAI and a Milltek exhaust, so far i'm happy with both. The milltek exhaust is not to loud when your crusing around and only when you get on it do you really hear it. It has a nice throaty rumble when you rev it up. I'm all smiles when i hear it :)
 

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From your first post:


1. A 24V head will not fit on a 12V block, it that is what you were after

2. All the CAI are basically the same, if you are worried about water inhalation go with a water bypass valve

3. Supersprint is a good choice, not to loud and just throaty.

4. Supercharging you have alot of low end torque and hp, but loss all of it on the top end. Plus 320hp is common limit to superchargers on vw's. Turbocharging you don't have alot of hp and torque 3000RPM and before but make up for all of that till redline. You will never run out of hp and turbo makes the biggest gains on VW's. Engine life is not shortened up to a certain threshold. Meaning once you start breaking that 250hp mark and 8psi of boost, the tensile and compression loads start to become destructive without the proper amount of fuel to back it up from a stock fuel system. Trust me, once you go boost you never go back. 250hp is usually not enough for the average speed freak. Bore it to a 2.9, O-ring the head, build it from the oil pan to manifold and bring on the boost
.

5. Nitrous would be your only real big power adder here. It is the most driveable adder there is because you only use it when you want to.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote
I guess I would also like to know - given an upgrade to something like a SC or a turbo, what other upgrades must definitely be done along with this
The 3 biggest upgrades I would say would be before you even thought about driving the car with 250 300hp would be the differential. Better traction and takes loads of stress off the stock tranny. Then would be brakes and suspension. If you go with a nice turbo or SC and count in all the other upgrades you are looking at around $6500 to $7000 installed. But that is with new parts and a hefty labor cost. So if you can do 2 out of 3 then you knock some money off of that. Hope this helps




[ September 05, 2003: Message edited by: evilgti2000 ]
 

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Discussion Starter #7
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by evilgti2000:
From your first post:


1. A 24V head will not fit on a 12V block, it that is what you were after

2. All the CAI are basically the same, if you are worried about water inhalation go with a water bypass valve

3. Supersprint is a good choice, not to loud and just throaty.

4. Supercharging you have alot of low end torque and hp, but loss all of it on the top end. Plus 320hp is common limit to superchargers on vw's. Turbocharging you don't have alot of hp and torque 3000RPM and before but make up for all of that till redline. You will never run out of hp and turbo makes the biggest gains on VW's. Engine life is not shortened up to a certain threshold. Meaning once you start breaking that 250hp mark and 8psi of boost, the tensile and compression loads start to become destructive without the proper amount of fuel to back it up from a stock fuel system. Trust me, once you go boost you never go back. 250hp is usually not enough for the average speed freak. Bore it to a 2.9, O-ring the head, build it from the oil pan to manifold and bring on the boost
.

5. Nitrous would be your only real big power adder here. It is the most driveable adder there is because you only use it when you want to.

The 3 biggest upgrades I would say would be before you even thought about driving the car with 250 300hp would be the differential. Better traction and takes loads of stress off the stock tranny. Then would be brakes and suspension. If you go with a nice turbo or SC and count in all the other upgrades you are looking at around $6500 to $7000 installed. But that is with new parts and a hefty labor cost. So if you can do 2 out of 3 then you knock some money off of that. Hope this helps




[ September 05, 2003: Message edited by: evilgti2000 ]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you saying that after 250hp that the engine life will be shortened if other things aren't upgraded or are you saying that the engine life will be shortened no matter what? And btw - that is a sick engine you've got there
 

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Discussion Starter #8
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by evilgti2000:
From your first post:


1. A 24V head will not fit on a 12V block, it that is what you were after

2. All the CAI are basically the same, if you are worried about water inhalation go with a water bypass valve

3. Supersprint is a good choice, not to loud and just throaty.

4. Supercharging you have alot of low end torque and hp, but loss all of it on the top end. Plus 320hp is common limit to superchargers on vw's. Turbocharging you don't have alot of hp and torque 3000RPM and before but make up for all of that till redline. You will never run out of hp and turbo makes the biggest gains on VW's. Engine life is not shortened up to a certain threshold. Meaning once you start breaking that 250hp mark and 8psi of boost, the tensile and compression loads start to become destructive without the proper amount of fuel to back it up from a stock fuel system. Trust me, once you go boost you never go back. 250hp is usually not enough for the average speed freak. Bore it to a 2.9, O-ring the head, build it from the oil pan to manifold and bring on the boost
.

5. Nitrous would be your only real big power adder here. It is the most driveable adder there is because you only use it when you want to.

The 3 biggest upgrades I would say would be before you even thought about driving the car with 250 300hp would be the differential. Better traction and takes loads of stress off the stock tranny. Then would be brakes and suspension. If you go with a nice turbo or SC and count in all the other upgrades you are looking at around $6500 to $7000 installed. But that is with new parts and a hefty labor cost. So if you can do 2 out of 3 then you knock some money off of that. Hope this helps




[ September 05, 2003: Message edited by: evilgti2000 ]
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was also curious - what kind of loss of hp and torque is there <3000rpm with a turbo? Will it be less hp and torque than I have now at <3000rpm or just not as much as the rest of the powerband? Thanks everyone for all the helpful info.
 

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I am not saying that drastic failure is going to happen with your motor after 250hp. I am just saying you will start to see some increased wear when you get into these power levels no matter what. But this is also determined by how well you maintain the car. You will always have wear and when you add forced induction it will be accelerated. There isn't enough time in this day to explain the entire theory of engine wear to you and I definately don't have the typing skills
. My advice to you would be to go to your local bookstore and pick up Corky Bell "Maximum Boost". In the first couple of chapters he describes engine wear, reliablitiy, etc. that would be helpful to alot of your questions and make you a little more educated for when you boost that VR6
.


To your other question. Maybe I stated that kinda confusing. I didn't mean you would lose hp or torque before 3000RPM as compared to stock. That is almost never the case. I meant it will take you a little longer to get into boost with a turbo then a supercharger. You will 99% of the time have more hp and torque across the entire powerband as compared to stock with a turbo and especially a supercharger. Thanks for the nice comment also
 

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Discussion Starter #10
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by evilgti2000:
I am not saying that drastic failure is going to happen with your motor after 250hp. I am just saying you will start to see some increased wear when you get into these power levels no matter what. But this is also determined by how well you maintain the car. You will always have wear and when you add forced induction it will be accelerated. There isn't enough time in this day to explain the entire theory of engine wear to you and I definately don't have the typing skills
. My advice to you would be to go to your local bookstore and pick up Corky Bell "Maximum Boost". In the first couple of chapters he describes engine wear, reliablitiy, etc. that would be helpful to alot of your questions and make you a little more educated for when you boost that VR6
.


To your other question. Maybe I stated that kinda confusing. I didn't mean you would lose hp or torque before 3000RPM as compared to stock. That is almost never the case. I meant it will take you a little longer to get into boost with a turbo then a supercharger. You will 99% of the time have more hp and torque across the entire powerband as compared to stock with a turbo and especially a supercharger. Thanks for the nice comment also
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am really appreciative of your's and everyone's input and advice but just one last question:

Is a car with an aftermarket turbo pushing fairly high levels of boost capable of being a daily driver vehicle?

I notice that you (evilgti2000) have your vr6 turbo golf as well as another vehicle which I assume is your daily driver. I don't intend to push things as far as you have with your stageIV (at least until I can afford another vehicle) but I do notice that you have that 2nd gti which may or may not be mostly stock which makes me wonder about having a boosted vr6 as a daily driver.

many thanks again everyone
 

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2. I have Carbonio CAI. I really like the sucking sound it puts out. and it looks real nice (real carbon fiber)
3. I have 2.25" Thermal Reasearch and Design cat back exhaust system. I like the low growl, and it howls when you give it some.

I would like to go turbo or s/c someday. But right now, I cant afford it. keep us updated if you go with either.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tommunist:

1. The new 24v VR6s is 200hp. Is it possible to upgrade parts of the engine to make it 24v or is this impossible?

2. What is a practical CAI for someone that would be driving their car everyday?

3. What is a practical catback exhaust that won't be deafening or annoying but sounds nice?

4. Turbo or supercharge? Which is better and how much if at all is the engine life shortened from each?

5. Other upgrades that can be done that will leave the car driveable on a daily basis?

I know that's a lot of questions but I have a lot to learn and that's why I'm here. Thanks.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


1. No

2. All the same just don't drive into a large body of water

3. Don't get a TT (Check my sig, I have a TT cat back 2.5" no resonator w/Borla and a Eurosport CAI, My car is LOUD!!!!)

4. Questions 2 and 3 you wanted "practical" parts for everyday driving. Now your asking about a SC ot Turbo. I'd stay away from those if you want a practical daily driven car.

5. Intake, exhaust and a Chip, then do lots of suspension work. Get a lighter flywheel. New clutch. Stickey tires.

Have fun
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tommunist:
Is a car with an aftermarket turbo pushing fairly high levels of boost capable of being a daily driver vehicle?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I've read and researched the VR6 can handle up to 15 psi on the stock block, but 8 psi is the daily driven limit.

Also any F.I. will shorten the life of the motor.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tommunist:
I am really appreciative of your's and everyone's input and advice but just one last question:

Is a car with an aftermarket turbo pushing fairly high levels of boost capable of being a daily driver vehicle?

I notice that you (evilgti2000) have your vr6 turbo golf as well as another vehicle which I assume is your daily driver. I don't intend to push things as far as you have with your stageIV (at least until I can afford another vehicle) but I do notice that you have that 2nd gti which may or may not be mostly stock which makes me wonder about having a boosted vr6 as a daily driver.

many thanks again everyone
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I would really never rely on a turbo or supercharged car as my daily driver. I do use my 2000 GTi VR6 as my daily driver and if I only had the 94 VR6 turbo I could use it for daily driving on low boost to a certain extent. But would I trust it or count on it being reliable day in, day out....no. If you are planning on doing FI on your daily driver I wouldn't suggest it. Get a beater and be done with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by evilgti2000:

I would really never rely on a turbo or supercharged car as my daily driver. I do use my 2000 GTi VR6 as my daily driver and if I only had the 94 VR6 turbo I could use it for daily driving on low boost to a certain extent. But would I trust it or count on it being reliable day in, day out....no. If you are planning on doing FI on your daily driver I wouldn't suggest it. Get a beater and be done with it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's the sad reality I hadn't hoped for but was expecting.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So since it seems that FI isn't a very good option for a daily driver but how much hp and torque can be had from other mods that ARE okay for a daily driver?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
It seems that someone over at clubVR6 has a supercharger on their VR6 that they've been running for the last 40k daily with no major problems. Not sure how much boost they are running though.
 

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yeah I want a FI on my vr too. I was looking at the EIP setup. the stage 2 turbo kit is what I would get if I had the $$. but i dont, and in reality, I wouldn't do FI, unless I had another car. and that is just not in the cards right now. Im sure some people drive daily with FI on a vr. and Im sure its properly maintained. Im not saying that you wouldnt take care of it, Im just saying its just another thing to worry about if something went wrong.
 
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