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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

Wonder if anyone can help me before I take the car to a garage if need be.

I was driving home today doing around 75 in 5th gear when all of a sudden the Warning Light came on and started flashing orange. From then on for the next few miles whenever I pressed the accelerator the car juddered and there was no power surge as I would expect as the Boost gauge on the dash went up. I actually heard a wining sound. I parked up and left it for 10 minutes, when started the whole car was juddering quite a bit and when pulling away and the boost gauge went up I heard a high whining noise but no power injection.

I have AA Gold cover and likely I need to take it to the garage but wanted to check if anyone had any ideas of what likely I could do, check or what this is at fault

Picture below of the warning light that came on flashing orange

 

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If the whining sound is there with the car not moving you have a better chance of finding the cause of this noise.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If the whining sound is there with the car not moving you have a better chance of finding the cause of this noise.
Hi There,

Thank you for the reply.

The whining sound is only there when press the accelerator and the boost gauge kicks in.

I am going to ring my AA cover tomorrow but they only cover up to £1000 so I am hoping this is not a serious fault
 

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Hi There,

Thank you for the reply.

The whining sound is only there when press the accelerator and the boost gauge kicks in.

I am going to ring my AA cover tomorrow but they only cover up to £1000 so I am hoping this is not a serious fault
With a helper holding one ear and listening at the far end of a garden hose you can make a stethoscope and maybe localize the noise to a component.

Or, post the noise on a YouTube video so others here can give their opinion.

Speaking of YouTube, they post sounds of various pitches. If you can identify the frequency of the whine it may help. An engine running at 3000 RPM will have a basic pitch of 3000 RPM/(60 sec/min) = 50 RPS = 50 Hz but other higher pitch noises (like valve lifters) will probably predominate.
Accessories will spin at higher than 3000 RPM depending on the ratio of pulley diameters.
 

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A flashing "check engine" light means that raw fuel is entering the exhaust system.

The shuddering you feel is most likely from a failed ignition coil.

When the coil fails, the spark plug doesn't fire, and raw fuel enters the exhaust system, thus causing the flashing check engine light.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks everyone fr the replies.

2001jettagls - It sounds as though this is the issue then as your explanation matches with a few others I have seen comment on this issue. The dealer was very keen in order for me to get the deal I wanted on this car I had to pay £60 for 12 month RAC Platinum Warranty. So now I am inclined to see what this covers. I am sure if there is a mechanical fault it will cover it in terms of parts/labour however it is things like diagnosing the fault etc that they likely charge you upfront on but you only get back if the fault is found to be under Warranty repair otherwise you lose that money.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Bit of an update which is not good,

Local Garage scanned the car and found a misfire issue on Cylinder 2 and 4 on Coil Packs.

RAC authorized the repair so they swapped them over however issue still there and same error on coming up on computer scan.

After garage rang around a few vw specialists they come to the conclusion after a compression test that one cylinder had no compression at all

They seem to think it is now a possible valve or piston issue so sounds serious.

Problem I have is as RAC do not cover diagnostics would they class stripping the engine to check piston and valve as diagnostics or if the fault is found to be one of them then surely to fix it the engine would had to have been stripped anyway.

I am ringing them and the dealer I bought it from as it is only 3 months old so need to see what the dealer say in terms of they sold me a car 3 months ago that now may have this serious issue :(
 

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Yeah although I have just read the Warranty agreement and says Does Not Include:

Dismantling

We will not pay for any stripping down of the parts to determine the cause of the failure of parts or breakdown unless we accept the repair request in Section E. Section E being a list of whats covered which the literally is the whole engine so seems I should be okay.

Just also spoke to the dealer I bought it off and they advise if it is a fault in the engine then any dismantling would be covered as would need to be done to investigate and fix the issue.

So lets hope it all gets sorted tomorrow as it needs to go to a specialist garage now as the current one do not have the tool to do this job.

Only cost I may incur is the coil packs as I presume RAC will argue the replacement of them did not fix the issue
 

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presume RAC will argue the replacement of them did not fix the issue
This logic assumes only one root cause for a problem; it neglects contributory, secondary causes.

Unfortunately, it's hard to say what percent of car problems is caused by multiple factors.

On the other side, if a garage replaces three components before the problem goes away I doubt they will remove the new components to find out which one, or two, actually fixed it.
It's a lot of permutations/combinations and there is no financial incentive for the shop to do it.

There might also be an undiscovered root cause that will make the new parts fail early.

There are whole books written on logical troubleshooting; let's hope your guys read and follow them.



From Wiki:
For any two correlated events A and B, the following relationships are possible:
A causes B;
B causes A;
A and B are consequences of a common cause, but do not cause each other;
There is no connection between A and B; the correlation is coincidental.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
This logic assumes only one root cause for a problem; it neglects contributory, secondary causes.

Unfortunately, it's hard to say what percent of car problems is caused by multiple factors.

On the other side, if a garage replaces three components before the problem goes away I doubt they will remove the new components to find out which one, or two, actually fixed it.
It's a lot of permutations/combinations and there is no financial incentive for the shop to do it.

There might also be an undiscovered root cause that will make the new parts fail early.

There are whole books written on logical troubleshooting; let's hope your guys read and follow them.



From Wiki:
For any two correlated events A and B, the following relationships are possible:
A causes B;
B causes A;
A and B are consequences of a common cause, but do not cause each other;
There is no connection between A and B; the correlation is coincidental.
Thanks DIY,

I would agree and my view would be if the system says it was a misfire on Cylinders 2 and 4 then no matter what garage I took it to they would have swapped these. I likely say this for 2 reasons, one being why would the garage ignore the system results and delve further into the engine which would cost more money and labor and still no guarantee of fixing the issue and the other being with it being such a simple fix and cheap parts it makes sense to at least swap those to eliminate them as a possible cause.

I have to ring RAC today but my view will be unless they can justify that a garage they would of sent me to would have not replaced the coil packs then they can cover the cost.

But the problem with a lot of these warranties and covers is if there is a grey area and there is no proof either way the customer is usually left to foot the bill :(

But then again I think after all that has happened I would take having the car back fixed and the only cost I paid was maybe £60 on a set of coil packs ;)
 

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and the other being with it being such a simple fix and cheap parts it makes sense to at least swap those to eliminate them as a possible cause./QUOTE]

Yes.
Here's some choices:

cheap part + labor and high likelihood it is the cause? Probably replace it.
cheap part + labor and low likelihood it is the cause? Most people probably replace it.
costly part + labor and high likelihood it is the cause? A lot of money riding on this gamble. . .bad spot to be in unless you can return the part.
costly part + labor and low likelihood it is the cause? Last to be tried.

Let's say part A is 10% (0.1) likely (based on the mechanic's estimate) to fix the problem and it costs $1000, parts + labor.
Part B is 80% likely (based on the mechanic's estimate) to fix the problem and it costs $100, parts + labor.

What to do?

A has a 0.9 (1- 0.1) probability of not fixing the problem so you expect to be out 0.9 x $1000 = $900 if you replace this part.
B has a 0.2 (1-point eight) probability of not fixing the problem so you'd be out 0.2 x $100 = $20.
Replace B because it minimizes your expected loss.

If you have a spreadsheet you can tweak the numbers to decide on close calls. It still may not fix your car but at least you did "due diligence." :D



The other problem comes up when you replace a part and it doesn't fix it. People are tempted to throw good money after bad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs
 
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